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A Mercedes-Simplex Mystery? (Update: 1909 Pierce Arrow Model 40)
Hugo Modderman sends this nice period shot. The car obviously is pre WWI . He bets it is a Mercedes Simplex. Yet he wonders why the car has a Dutch 1923 registration. Probably it was imported form Germany into Holland as the family who owned the car lived a long time in Germany. The numbers painted on the radiator may be the first registration.
The car is shown here during a very early spring outing. The trees still without their green and the clothing of an early twenties winter. Funny but the registration K3572 came out in 1925 on the name of a Citroën importer from Middelburg. Why the family drove the car in his name? We can only guess after that. Question marks, question marks... but the most important one is of course what is the type of motorcar we're looking at. Mercedes, yes quite possible. But without the threepointed star there is always room for doubt. 1912 Berliet? Alco? Or?
Publiziert:
Sonntag Mai 15th, 2016
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Kommentare
Unbekannt
17 Mai 2016, 11:29
The reply to the comment of Politi is simple: limited production. In those years Pierce produced les than 1000 cars a year,which sold well in the USA. You can find a detailed article in AQ 28-4.
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Unbekannt
17 Mai 2016, 01:49
Looks more Locomobile than Pierce All Locos used that bottom style on their radiators also used same cowl in 1905
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Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 13:53
Anyone know why Pierce Arrow did not seek the pre-WW1 European market, the car obviously had the stamina and reputation to match most offered.
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Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 11:27
By the way, are there any more pictures of the coachwork?
Might be the car went to Europe for Coachwork to be fitted? It firewall seem to be around 1910 and great front guards.
Harry
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Might be the car went to Europe for Coachwork to be fitted? It firewall seem to be around 1910 and great front guards.
Harry
Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 11:20
Well done Robbie and Ariejan. I'm not an edwardian car expert by any measure. Really funny though, i was looking at the car this morning when it first came on line and thinking to my self,"Pierce-Arrow" but discounted it given the description of it being in Europe with Europian history.
What a great car, would be fascinating to know who took it on tour or how it ended up in Europe at that time.
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What a great car, would be fascinating to know who took it on tour or how it ended up in Europe at that time.
Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 08:22
It is a Pierce-Arrow indeed and I fully agree with Robbie Marenzi's id of the model. The car carries two registrations, one from Liverpool, the French registration number ending with M3 is Marseille and dates from early 1909. Pierce-Arrow was virtually absent in Europe before WW1, so my conclusion is that we see an american car on a european tour in 1909, confirmed by the two harbour city registrations.
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Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 05:07
I wonder if the car is owned by someone who lived in Liverpool. "K" IS THE registration letter for Liverpool in the UK
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Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 01:30
Looks very similar to my 1908 35hp Mercedes Simplex (Shaft Drive) on first glance or the smaller 1909 20hp cars.
If it is a Mercedes then it would have to be 1908 to 1909 pre the Star, but with the distinctive shape to the radiator along the then new from chassis cross member (i.e. the \____/ shape at the bottom).
However, the radiator does not have the usual Honeycomb Tube Core - but maybe still ok? Nor for many of the export cars, the round badge that was oftn but not always fitted.
And the brass wheel caps in the hubs are however not Mercedes - I believe.
Could be the smaller 20hp introduced in 1909. Not a Mercedes Simplex. Whereas my car is on a Mercedes Simplex Chassis and the engine plaque identifies it as such.
However, from what I can see of the Radiator, Front Wheels and Brass Hub Cap - my guess is it is not a Mercedes.
Harry Hickling
Melb, Australia
Harry
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If it is a Mercedes then it would have to be 1908 to 1909 pre the Star, but with the distinctive shape to the radiator along the then new from chassis cross member (i.e. the \____/ shape at the bottom).
However, the radiator does not have the usual Honeycomb Tube Core - but maybe still ok? Nor for many of the export cars, the round badge that was oftn but not always fitted.
And the brass wheel caps in the hubs are however not Mercedes - I believe.
Could be the smaller 20hp introduced in 1909. Not a Mercedes Simplex. Whereas my car is on a Mercedes Simplex Chassis and the engine plaque identifies it as such.
However, from what I can see of the Radiator, Front Wheels and Brass Hub Cap - my guess is it is not a Mercedes.
Harry Hickling
Melb, Australia
Harry
Unbekannt
16 Mai 2016, 01:26
I think it looks more like a 1909 Pierce-Arrow, the bonnet doesn't seem long enough for a six cylinder so it's probably a Model 40 with a T-head four-cylinder engine
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