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Identifying a Panhard et Levassor (update: 1912 X19?)
This can't be that hard to solve. Richard Biddulph found this pre 1914 Panhard & Levassor and freed it from a long time museum rest. There is this one little issue. The car has no identity, we just don't know what type and year is connected to the pleasant looking motorcar. The good news is that we do know a few numbers. Chassis identification is 8F-16859 and SU4D2, plus embossed Y. Engine number is #2153. Based on the information of Les Doyennes Panhard the monobloc sleeve valve engines came in 1914 and this engine looks like a sleeve valve, or ? So if we are right this could be the mentioned X26 16HP. When not a sleeve valve it probably one of the 1909-14 monoblocs. Tell us where we go wrong, or not. A friendly car like this deserves a proper name on its 'passport'.
Publiziert:
Montag Mai 12th, 2014
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Kommentare
Ned
07 Juli 2022, 09:45
Unbekannt
14 Mai 2014, 06:00
For sure it is a conventional engine as we had to grind the valves in after the long layup to get decent compression. Starting it on the handle it feels like about 2 litres or so. It was bought as being a 1911 car & stood next to a 1911 Delaunay Belleville HB4 which we will also be listing once we get it running.
The panhard runs absolutely sweetly & is a pleasure to crank into life. We just want to know exactly what the engine is!!!
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The panhard runs absolutely sweetly & is a pleasure to crank into life. We just want to know exactly what the engine is!!!
Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 15:21
After a small literature research I can ad the following. First about the radiator: a pointed radiator was not used earlier than (probably late) 1911. During the 1912 Paris Salon P&L showed a 10hp monobloc engine (the SU4D-engine), which looks similar to the one used in this car (AAZ 1912 Nr.50 p.11). The confusing thing is the SU4D2 code, as stated by Jan Bruijn. This could indeed indicate that the engine was replaced at some stage by a later model. My guess therefore is that originally the car was a 1912 X19 with the 10hp SU4D engine, replaced at some time by a more recent 12hp SU4D2 model.
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Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 13:57
Tim Moore is dead right. The SU4D2 engine was shown at the 1919 Salon, to be produced in 1920/21. Used in both normal and commercial Panhard motor cars. Now the big question, what are we looking at, anearly chassis with a later engine, or?
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Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 10:57
The type SU4D2 engine was first presented at the Paris Salon in 1919. It was fitted to the 12hp, type X31 and had a 72x140mm side valve engine of 2,280cc. 1,376 cars were sold between 1920 and 1922.
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Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 09:00
Yes that's certainly not a sleeve-valve engine.
I doubt the engine number is as low as you say since Panhard engine numbers of that order were used around 1900. I'd say the number 16859 is a better bet.
I'd guess it might be a 15/20 of 1910 or so as the smaller cars (8 and 12 h.p.) had 3/4 elliptic rear springing
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I doubt the engine number is as low as you say since Panhard engine numbers of that order were used around 1900. I'd say the number 16859 is a better bet.
I'd guess it might be a 15/20 of 1910 or so as the smaller cars (8 and 12 h.p.) had 3/4 elliptic rear springing
Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 08:27
I think it is a Model U4 made between 1908 and 1910.
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Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 08:26
Definitely not a sleeve valve, you can just see valve caps behind the water manifold besides all PL sleeve valve cars had a plate with SSS (no valves) on the radiator core. Pre WW1 PL sleeve valve engines also had separate exposed heads with deep set spark plugs so they all looked very different.
Bill Sides
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Bill Sides
Unbekannt
13 Mai 2014, 06:51
Hello, this engine is not a sleeve valve engine. Such an engine would have the spark plugs deep inside a vertical tube.
Frans Hoekemeijer
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Frans Hoekemeijer
I remain
Ned
NB: I am not expert on this matter...