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An Eastbourne Seaside Mystery (UPDATE: 1908/09 Itala?1907 FIAT?)
Nick Graves sent us above picture of his great grandfather William Charles Butler standing next to an impressive machine. Nick writes that the man was a 'motor engineer' in Eastbourne, Sussex somewhere from around 1910 to 1940. His garage was located at 8, Seaside, as his old business card shows (telephone 1005 - love it). The romantic street name - you can hear the sea gulls cry - has meanwhile been renamed into A259, with number 8 now housing a dull three-story-appartment block.
And so it seems that much of Butler's Garage heritage has been erased for good, with only Eastbourne pier on a stone's throw away as a silent and now ghostly reminder of days gone past. Still then, Nick wonders about that lovely picture. Who knows what kind of car his great grandfather was standing so proudly next to? The number plate DI 37 indicates it was registered in Kent after 1913, but we guess the car is a bit older. More like 1909, or? Check the engine design up closely - do we see four seperate pots? And what about the crankcase(?) cover left on the ground? Is the brass ID-plate high up on the right of the firewall... Peugeot? But then the XL Rushmore headlights may bring us in the US. Over to you!
Publiziert:
Dienstag September 2nd, 2014
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Kommentare
Unbekannt
09 Dezember 2014, 18:04
Unbekannt
26 September 2014, 18:58
Just wanted to say thanks to the editor and all the commenters.
Nick
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Nick
Unbekannt
09 September 2014, 19:39
I am sure the car pictured is an ITALA
In front of the car picture is the sump this is the same as my own ITALA sump.
this is a 40HP ITALA 1908/1909 4 cylinder T head with two blocks in pairs, Bore 130mm Stoke !40mm.
All ITALA'S were shaft drive.
I have a period picture of an ITALA at brooklands its reg is DI-259!
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In front of the car picture is the sump this is the same as my own ITALA sump.
this is a 40HP ITALA 1908/1909 4 cylinder T head with two blocks in pairs, Bore 130mm Stoke !40mm.
All ITALA'S were shaft drive.
I have a period picture of an ITALA at brooklands its reg is DI-259!
Unbekannt
04 September 2014, 14:32
I tend more to the 4 cylinder option. If you look at the engine design of the 1905-1906 4 cylinder 60 HP engine (Catalogo Bolaffi p. 121), you will see the same characteristics: T-head cast into two pairs, the height of the engine, the shape of the cooling water feed pipe, the location and shape of the exhaust pipe. And you can see on the photo already it's really huge: the total cylinder capacity of this engine was over 10 liters!
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Unbekannt
04 September 2014, 08:31
'''''''
... Its a DEASY..... son of the ol'sod..
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... Its a DEASY..... son of the ol'sod..
Unbekannt
04 September 2014, 08:15
Kieran, did the registration information not confirm the make?
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Unbekannt
03 September 2014, 21:27
I think the car is a 1907 Fiat 60hp with the 11,039cc six cylinder engine. The engine had 3 pairs of cylinders, each pair under the dark dome shaped heads, the first visible above the headlamp,
Early Irish registrations weren't allocated to the car but to the owner.
Irish Motoring Directories were printed annually listing motorists and their registration numbers.
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Early Irish registrations weren't allocated to the car but to the owner.
Irish Motoring Directories were printed annually listing motorists and their registration numbers.
Jeroen Booij
03 September 2014, 10:08
Thank you very much Kieran.
Interestingly, Dr. Heiser appears to have been involved in a deadly car accident in 1911 in Eastbourne, as the passenger of a 28hp Lanchester. Story here: http://clarcana.info/family/RichardJohnClarke/index.html#bbw
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Interestingly, Dr. Heiser appears to have been involved in a deadly car accident in 1911 in Eastbourne, as the passenger of a 28hp Lanchester. Story here: http://clarcana.info/family/RichardJohnClarke/index.html#bbw
Unbekannt
03 September 2014, 09:10
The car was registered to Dr A.L. Heiser, The Goffs, Eastbourne, England.This is according to the 1912 Irish Motoring Directory. Twenty seven of the first sixty one Roscommon numbers have addresses in England.
There are many explanations for this. Further to Don's comments, Many Irish Ascendancy families had contacts and residences in England.
Secondly there was a big interchange of British army personnel between Britain and Ireland.
Thirdly there were others in Britain who registered their cars in Ireland because of the low speed limits pertaining at home. Apparently by the time a British policeman processed a speeding summons on an "Irish" car the time lapse would be so long that the case would fizzle out.
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There are many explanations for this. Further to Don's comments, Many Irish Ascendancy families had contacts and residences in England.
Secondly there was a big interchange of British army personnel between Britain and Ireland.
Thirdly there were others in Britain who registered their cars in Ireland because of the low speed limits pertaining at home. Apparently by the time a British policeman processed a speeding summons on an "Irish" car the time lapse would be so long that the case would fizzle out.
Unbekannt
03 September 2014, 08:18
The car is unmistakably a Fiat. Watch the rectangular plate with round top on the dashboard, a real Fiat feature. Probably a 1906-1907 model.
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Jeroen Booij
03 September 2014, 07:33
Thank you Don. It teaches us that you shouldn't always rely on your old Glass's index!
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Unbekannt
03 September 2014, 06:10
The registration number DI 37 is not a Kent issue but rather an Irish number issued in Co Roscommon in Ireland. This would not be unusual to be in Eastbourne later as the DI series were issued from 1903 and therefore 37 would have been issued before Irish Independence. Irish numbers are often seen today on UK registered cars for example RRI 1 is a Dublin number from the 1950's which graces a Bentley in the Bonhams Beaulieu sale next Saturday.
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However not convinced its a Fiat and the engine does not look like a 6 cylinder engine to me - ITALA used the similar shape plate for years after Fiat so could be a later ITALA..
Love to know if anyone finds out for sure!