The Classy Chauffeur Mystery.(Upd. Daimler 1912/13 & 1907/08)

Thanks, Ian B #6. The photographs are from the Altrincham Area Image Archive, and were taken in the courtyard of Denzell House, which is in Denzell Gardens, Altrincham, just off the A56. The Gardens and adjoining Devisdale are open to the public all year round. The house is not open to the public, but the very fine exterior can be seen when walking through the park. For photos and history, visit our website.

Denzell House and Gardens was built in 1874 by Robert Scott on Dunham Road, Altringham. The property was bought by Samuel Lamb in 1904 and he lived there until his death in 1936. The house and gardens still stand. I suspect these are his cars.
http://www.friendsofdenzellanddevisdale.com/history.htm

The short wheelbase of the open car suggests it could be quite early. I found this lot of pictures - http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Daimler:_Cars - from which I assume it might be a 1906 model. Even though it has an extra step over the chain case for the rear seat passengers it would still mean a less than elegant entry.

As an aside, in 1950 or so I lived near Altrincham, and was taken to play in Denzil Gardens, which to my memory looked just like the house and arch shown in the photo.

Could the attribution have slipped a little from the house to the chauffeur?

I should just add that Daimler were amongst the first to introduce rounded scuttles, for 1904, so this does not greatly help identification. The later, formal car is actually a full cabriolet, rather than a landaulet, since the whole roof could be lowered- eventually. Here in England, by the time the chauffeur had managed to perform this feat, after struggling with the cumbersome leather top and removable door windows, it would certainly have started raining again!!

I will 'pass' on the tourer, which is certainly a Daimler and probably 1907- 8, since my own interest concerns the sleeve valve cars made from the 1909 season onwards. Daimler, like Renault, produced a large number of models, and changed the 'line up' every year. However, cylinders were always cast in pairs and the pairs were used to produce 'matching' four and six cylinder engines. Moreover, nearly all the engines shared a common 130mm piston stroke- so the range was more rationalized that it appeared to be. Clearly this landaulet is a four, and almost certainly 1912 - 14 period. Electric lights would not have been fitted to earlier cars and the chauffeur has his very own door, on the left side- the spare wheel precluded entry from his own side: this was an almost unheard of luxury for the paid driver before about 1912! My guess is that the model is a 20, 90 x 130mm bore and stroke, 3308cc. Until 1912 there was a 15, but few of those would have been fitted with heavy landaulet coachwork. The tyres are not white wall- the whole tyre would have been 'off- white' in colour, but the mud and dust of Edwardian roads would soon discolour the tread and part of the sidewalls. For 1914 the 20 had a gearbox integral with the rear axle, but that idea was soon abandoned. Certanly this lovely but heavy car would have been no firebrand on the road- but most Daimlers were used as refined town carriages.

The frontispiece to the 1912 book 'Motor Cars and their Story' by Frederick A Talbot shows HM The King's Daimler Car, which apart from being taller looks almost identical to the closed car.

The laundalet is a small sleeve valve Daimler of about 1912/13. Note electric side lamps. The plate on the scuttle is the Daimler serial no plate. The tourer is a larger chain drive poppet valve Daimler of about 1907/08. these were very good performers in their day.

I would say they were both Daimlers. I am not sure Daimlers had curved scuttles prior to 1910. The torn photo has a slightly flatter curve in its scuttle than the first curved scuttles but the radiator, with its ribs and 2 horizontal bars is seen on nothing else, as far as I know. Pre-1910, the scuttle was lower and the header tank higher. My guess is 1913 for the torn photo (a TE30?) and maybe 1910 for the open car.