Build your own Phony & Flashy

Dear Joris, I have known of these cars and its colorful owner for many years. From My world of Feature Film car building I see the value. When we make a movie like Sahara a Voison was requested. Clive Cussler requested a Big Special Voison. Mullins Museum has that car in its collection since it was special on a film level. I think there is a Time and place in my world of film to build the iconic Delehaye roadster . I think it is better to be seen at kit car Carlisle rather than Amelia, I would say Amelia event is a sporty car Concours for the usa. The guy who would build this car will spend $200,000 to build a retro car with a 740 bmw donor car. With the original car costing $2,000,000 . If we were doing a big feature film I might suggest this kit to my client a LS 3 corvette motor spend $70,000. as a film car. if you ever saw the Talbot logo teardrop coupe made in Palm beach 20 years ago my hat is off to that mans ability to build . I love delehaye Talbot lago. Voison, and Delage . I am a purist but I Promised myself if I win the lottery I will spend my summers in Europe vintage Racing my Real Delehaye all through Uk and Europe for the summer.
I think these bodys were wonderful quality as glass work goes. I have seen several of these cars finished at pebble beach and they looked great. In your next big prewar Paris movie I would love to build such a car. John Wiser whizzermotors inc

Dear Editor,
Oh dear! How I love this. Starting from a missed point we have people sounding-off in all directions.
Firstly, no one so far seems to have realised that all this started when some clubs (B.O.C. comes to mind) allowed the construction of 'authentic' cars as long as they had three major components that were original. As there were always those that would not consider using an original part unless it was pristine there was immediately created a supply of genuine original parts that could be reassembled into another (cloned?) vehicle. Early on some (unscrupulous) people realised that this could be carried out almost indefinitely, once an identity had been established for the car. Add to this the fact that in Europe there has always been a somewhat 'Laissez-faire' attitude toward FIVA documents and you had a recipe for total disaster.
I built a number of 'replicas' (amongst other things). At least that is what the press wished to call them, I wanted to call them 'Hermitage Engineering Specials' but I found it very difficult to get people to listen. One (at least) of these now has full FIVA documentation, hence my comment! Al least all my cars were built from original components from one make and model, correct to time period. (Coachwork excepted).
The next thing is that there are no fixed definitions to cover all these 'reproductions'; 'copies'; 'clones'; 'replicas'; 'pastiches'; 'tribute cars'; etc, etc.
I think that we can all agree that there
is a big difference between a real Bugatti (I exclude those falling into the three component category, which are somewhere in-between) and a 'Pur-Sang' for, regardless of the fact that the latter is a very nice recreation, it is NOT a real Bugatti! Equally there is a big difference between say a replica C-Type Jaguar, made in steel and aluminium as the original and one made with glass-fibre bodywork, no matter how well it is constructed. Anyway, I have already written a rather long and possibly tedious rant, so, perhaps other may like to continue this discussion and come up with some definitions that could be applied universally so that we can all know what is a 'real' Vintage, Veteran or Classic car, or what is not.

Peter Maguire.
P.S. I did get the joke! Also I do have some thoughts on the DVLA originality problem but that will require another comment!

I believe that I am a purist, so no replica for me. But the general public may not be so particular. So if I had a real Bugatti, and a replica of it, I could keep the Bug preserved and drive around in the replica. Public may not care, and those who do would anyway be around the real thing.
But one could go further into fantasy designs. If the 1930's Delahayes and Delages had progressed on to the 1950's, we could actually have had a roadster like the one designed by Luigi Colani. Unfortunately a war interrupted progress. But I would not spend my money on such creations.

Batman and Robin car all wrong.
Pathetic.

David Scott,

I think you need to get out more David, your taking yourself too seriously. You have completely missed the point.

I love the repartee here! It's a car, people, not a clone of your momma. Get over it. How many of the commenters here have actually built something from the ground up? People like Mr. R. Mawer should remember that many car companies started off building 'kits' from other companies. Look at the history of BMW, didn't they start with Austin 7 bits. Then later, Frasier-Nash built cars based on BMWs...It all comes full circle.

David Scott ,,,, just like arnie you will be back ... where else have u got to go
:/

There must be a problem with your website, my bookmark too k me to Hot Rod Monthly? Joris seems to keep telling us that "a new generation is taking over", if this is a example of what they are proposing I think it's time to sell my cars and get out, I don't "read" a pre-war car site to see this crap, and that's not even getting on to the ego-boosting fake "Riley Brooklands", "MG Q types" and Bentley's that seem to infest the ads here, sorry Joris, you have just lost a "reader"


editor: thanks for being honest David. Just sorry to understand you totally-totally missed my point with this posting, for which I can only blame myself. Nothing is harder than trying to be funny. Like Gareth Morgan responded, we should have saved this one for April 1... which is the very best comment so far.

All the best anyway David.

What have the "Authorities" said about this.
It used to be that cars built from the remains od orhers, would get a "Q" plate registration, and be in the "Kit Kar Katalogue".
Reading their "Blurb", do they really believe what they have written ?... Paying Homage, ..... One side Stainless, the other side Chrome, .......
Ha..Ha.. Haaa.....
Its a tribute to Van Gough, but I put Both Ears on it !

Well, its seemed to have served its purpose. - An animated discussion. Its both flashy and phony and ugly and beautiful. Its design is purposful and rubbish.
Its not for me. Its no replica.- Its a hotrod.
I personally dont have any issue and its not pretending to be anything else.
I can understand why the builder would show off his skills but cant really understand why you would buy it.

editor: correct 1: discussion was the purpose of this posting. Correct 2: it is not a replica . 3. Phony & Flashy is a well known american joke with tongue in cheek respect to Figoni & Falaschi

I think people might be missing the point with this Phoney Flashi creation. I am not sure it is a replica of anything, but it is art. Automotive art is a subject of its own. As we know there were different eras of beautiful design. The No.2 racer at Amelia is one example. The streamliners of the late thirties was a beautiful but brief period which has interested many. There are some very knowledgeable enthusiasts who are dedicated to the art of the automobile

I see your heading- 'Build your own Phony & Flashy' What a monstrosity.

From our local VicRoads Road Authority to the UK authorities it appears they are attempting to regulate the old car (in my case vintage car) world to stop the business of making look-alikes in modern material and attempting to pass them off as 'replicas'.
Unfortunately unless these well meaning authorities take good advice they are going to make life difficult for the true enthusiast.

Tony.


editor: too bad many people overlook the humor of a car like this. I look at it as a 'çartoon'. To me it's nothing more than a good laugh and a 'chapeau' to the great designers of the golden age of Concours

A typical example of how the word 'replica' is being flaunted would be a recent [repeat] advertisement for a 'Bentley Le Mans replica 1929'. To be a true replica ALL parts must be of 1929 manufacture. UYsing a Rolls Royce chassis frame and a later 8 cylinder engine refutes the '1929' claim. It is cars such as these pretending to be something they are not that has upset the whole process with the DVLA [In the U.K.] for obtaining an 'age related' number plate. It is cars such as the one mentioned above that have made it very difficult for owners of genuine vintage cars to have their cars approved due to the fact that each and every application is treated suspiciously.

I think you should have saved this one for April the first..........................

Replica may be the wrong word for these design exercises. Being an Industrial Designer, I see these as testing the water, and pushing the automotive world along. I would like to imagine a Miller V 16 with all wheel drive. The sound would match the looks. That said, the Stork is the wrong image, and should stay perched on a Hiso.

Unlike many in the classic car fraternity, I would like to see more good replicas built. That means exact replicas of the original, built to exacting standards with the same materials, whose parts will fit the original. Racing Bugattis built in Argentina, or the Alvis 4.3 litre continuation series probably suit the bill. Plastic bodies on modern mechanicals do not. And if all the details are wrong (beginning with the wheels), then forget it, not worth talking about. I can understand the necessity to use modern mechanicals for reliability in everyday use and to keep prices affordable, but at least get the sheet metal (not plastic) right.

I LOVE IT!, but not as a car. I would put foam blocks in the "pontoon" fenders, ad a small inboard engine (Crosley?) and be the hit of the yacht club.

Featuring this "creation" in prewarcar. com is so sad,I think. I have sometimes wondered what the editorial policy really is, & I now suppose it must be "anything goes"? There are quite a few people who like this sort of vehicle but there are other magazines & sites for them. The value of a site such as prewarcar.com. is that it encourages like-minded people to care for & rebuild genuinely old & historic vehicles; we see others doing this, & are encouraged to do the same. But seeing this kitcar type of thing included simply puts me off, & makes me wonder if it is worthwhile bothering-is there any future for traditional values ?
What does "The Automobile" magazine (associated with "prewarcar.com", we are told), think of the featuring of this "evocation", I wonder.

editor:

der Mr. R. Mawer,

How is the weather today in Britain? In Amsterdam we have a bit of early spring sun. Where is your British sense of good humor? We like to have some fun now and then. You must have read from our first line in which corner of the room we are today... or? So lighten up, brighten up and don't take us too serious.

the Editor

Just read the thread, this is fun. I love replica's that are close to original, drive them all day, break them and it's an easy fix. Don't like poor facsimiles with modern little wheels and a VW engine though, just visually awful and no driving experience. Those two Delahaye where in the back field at Amelia, quite outrageous styling but what the heck. Did anyone see the C Type and Porshe from 502 Automotive a few yard down from there. Pretty good replica's and eligible for FIA papers if you don't fancy bending a real one (or your insurance won't let you race it!). I could not fit the C Type, too fat, God's message of the day to me. Best.

Dear friends,
this lovely piece of plastic ist Roy Lichtenstein's version of the Maserati-logo.Nice to find it in Amelia Island.
Keep on investigating!

All the best, Malte Jürgens

i think that this aint that bad, infact I rather like it. Also how about this. You just so happen to have 1.5 million dollars floating around and a Delahaye comes up for auction. You could buy it then pay a man 250 k for dropping a gavel and never drive the thing. Or you could commission your own replica have any motor you want, any custom chassis that you fancy, a brand new body and other bits and pieces that u desire and all for about 250k. (the days of the cordoba chassis are long gone Erik and as for motors how about a performance crate motor from gm or ford for value) now u have just dropped 250 large keeping the traditional skills of coachbuilding alive and now have 1 million left to retire and tour the world in a car that wont break down and still have money left over for champagne, scrabbled eggs and salmon breakfasts. - As i get older the purist in me slowly wanes

Even if you don't like it, this is people having fun; something we're losing sight of fast, this side of the pond.

Oh dear, here we go !!! Starting with the wrong word ."Replica" in fact means a copy of an existing car by the manufacturer who made the original vehicle and in the same period. A wellknown exemple is Frazer Nach TT replica. The best word for all this new, modern stuff could be "LOOK-ALIKE".

How is it possible that cars manufactured today can be presented with 1927 papers. 2 times misleading everybody. How is it possible that 1928 look alike racecars are reconstructed on 1949 chassis..just to have the papers right ?
Some people, I feel more and more people, want to be a part of the oldtimerguys , but do not catch, or do not want to catch what it is drive and old car, do not want or cannot help themselves on the roadside... Our world is not changing, but the people is changing. They want cars to be seen with...to be in the picture and on the pictures. It's all getting very big money-business loosing its soul. Luckily these who know stay with the wheels on the right road and "pour vivre, voivons cachés" .
It will not be difficult to convince the larger part of Prewarcar readers

Nothing wrong with a good replica, problem is there are not a lot about, too small wheels wrong radiator etc etc, but it sometimes comes down to money if you can afford a Bugatti that's great if not then maybe a replica is good, i would not mind a decent Teal in the garage

Greetings, thanks for the photo of the plastic fantastic. In line with the garish nature of such fakes, I would think a secondhand lawnmower engine would be appropriate under the bonnet - and of course, such a machine should naturally see the driver adorned in suitably appropriate attire - I suggest white Gucci shoes, loud checked trousers, and a peaked cap with a battery -operated electric propeller on the top. Kind regards, Warrick.

Sorry, But I don't love replica's,…… only the real stuff

The ideal drivetrain for the "replica" car crowd is the most benign, yet fuel wasting 7 liter V-8. Of course, connected to soft, yet poorly handling chassis parts. Like that found under a 1978 Chrysler Cordoba, or perhaps a Lincoln town car. Gages, seats, transmissions must be sourced, with respect to how pathetic and awful they are. The must haves include a fake woodgrain instrument board, sourced from a Ford Pinto, a massive chrome plated brake pedal, and the same Winnebago shower door hardware this specimen has on the sides of the hood. Then there must be some fake leather seating with chrome trim inserts. And loop pile nylon carpet in a shade of mauve not seen in nature.

comment censored on account of
defamation....
profanity....
holocaust denial....

take your pick

Joris, that looks like something Terry Cook had his hands on. I like it!!

Hi,

my camera can't take pics of this stuff... The Mercedes 680 S or the 2 Delahaye 135 were most beautiful than this replica.

vince

editor:
Well if your camera denies this stuff, that probably means you are using an analoge Leica, Hasselblad or Voigtländer maybe?