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About Quiz #410... Amilcar CGS3 plus, plus, plus... Derby radiator



The Saturday before Xmas we gave you a nearly impossible riddle (also see more photos there) to solve.  To identify the car of Mr. Hesselman, pictured above. And to be honest we weren't too sure about it ourselves. To start we only had the word of the long time owner,  who without a nanosecond of hesitation said "Amilcar !! ". I asked him what made him so convinced as there is not too much Amilcar visible when you inspect the intriguing barnsleeper. As evidence he claimed to have visited the Amilcar works back in a distant past and he also produced a letter saying that an Amilcar he owned was invited in 1973 for the carnival parade of a nearby village. Period! Case closed..?

Alas upon closer inspection of chassis and the three seater boattail body we came to the conclusion that at least these parts are with near 100% certainty Amilcar CGS3. Also the X-crossmembers meant to carry the headlights but currently not in function are very much CGS. A few loose items scatteted in the interior also point towards Amilcar. But that's it.  The engine-gearbox assembly is  of a different origin, it is marked CHAPUIS-DORNIER, an engine that was quite popular with other cyclecar manufacturers like BNC (see recent advert).

The heavily modified front and rear axle assemblies are a chapter on their own. The front axle is identified by Craig little as Citroën B12 and we have no reason to question his claim. Several competitor say that the rear axle may be Amilcar. Possible, but at least the quarter eleiptic leaf springs have made place for an exotic homecooked half eleiptic approach. Brake drums don't look very Amilcarish either. Finally that very clear V-shaped radiator. Mentioned are Citroen,  DFP (Doriot, Flandrin & Parant), Voisin.  Your editor also considered french Derby, early BNC but we are still not convinced. Anybody who can jump in on this? 

It was obvious that Jos Cox was best in his assesment. He is right on chassis, engine and body. Congratulations Jos with this first win of the year 2016! 




Publiziert:
Freitag Januar 1st, 2016
Unbekannt
04 Januar 2016, 11:25
Bonjour,
Je pense aussi que c'est DERBY.Je possede dans ma collection la meme voiture,avec le meme radiateur.Bests regards.
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Unbekannt
03 Januar 2016, 17:06
Hello Detlef,
A C4 has quarter elliptic front springs... And this chassis has a coke bottle shape. A C4 has'nt!
Jos Cox
(Do I still see you in august?)
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Unbekannt
03 Januar 2016, 03:01
For other pictures, you can see here.

http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/amilcar,cgs3/Interesting
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Unbekannt
03 Januar 2016, 00:52
Detlef
Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are wrong!
The chassis and body are very much a CGS3 of 1924/5. Virtually the only other Amilcar parts are the spare wheel carrier, steering wheel, brake cross shaft and other brake levers.
The back axle is definitely not Amilcar.
How do I know? - I have far more pictures of this car when first found.
What is amazing is that the body and chassis have survived in such good condition, when all the rest of the parts disappeared. May be due to the war!
Amilcarement
Rod
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Unbekannt
02 Januar 2016, 19:00
Maybe the radiator could be SUERE...
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Unbekannt
02 Januar 2016, 18:28
Bonne Année 2016 à tous les Amis de la voiture ançienne.
Je pense à un cyclecar DERBY 1924 Chapuis-Dornier 1100 cm3 culbuté.
Bests regards. Thierry PARIS
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Unbekannt
02 Januar 2016, 17:28
....and compare the front axle with the one
on the BNC offered at the same time on your site.....
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Unbekannt
02 Januar 2016, 17:24
I'm sorry to opt against your judging but I'm rather sure that the chassis of that kit
of parts is definately not a CGS3 Amilcar but a C4 as it lacks the inward turned ends
of the chassis rails. They were not curved on the C4 as on the CGS3 and as the pictures
clearly show the rails are rather straight and so surely C4. In addition the bodywork of this car is typically C4 as well as these three seat bodies didn't come on the CGS3 which normally had the Bordino tail....
(compare with Gilles Fournier's book)
I don't want to be Mr. Knows-Everything-Better but I'm rather sure....
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Unbekannt
02 Januar 2016, 10:47
Try Panhard for the radiator. PL put their motive on the cooling matrix so no marks on the brass surround as with Voisin.

editor: possible, but in that case it must be a very small Panhard Levassor
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