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Phoenix Veteran to be hot-rodded?
There are things worse than changing a tatty saloon into a sports special... Bill Savage reports from Australia about an edwardian Phoenix which is in danger to be slaughtered for a hot-rod project! Owner says he probably will sell it to a hot rodder to chop up, as "he's had it with trying to sell it" (FYI, no idea how he was offering the car but for certain it was not offered here at PWC). Bill himself is not in the position to rescue the car but is reaching out "to some high level collectors in hopes of preserving the car". The car shown is very similar - not to say equal - to the 1912 11,9 HP as shown in Georgano. Anybody interested in the project is free to comment below or write to info&prewarcar.com (exchange & for @). We will forward all e-mails to Bill Savage.
The Phoenix light car was a product of the Ascot Motor and Manufacturing Co, Letchworth. Herts. UK (Georgano)...... BUT, see UPDATES by Stuart Penketh and Allan Lupton
Publiziert:
Sonntag Juni 30th, 2013
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Kommentare
Unbekannt
04 Juli 2013, 11:05
what would a hot rodder do with it ??? only thing i can see is the seat and the cowl.. radiator might be a bit of a novelty but would most likely need a re core,,, chassis wheels and axles would all be binned i would have thought,,,, there is nothing there,,, in my mind worth about 500 hundred bucks...and u would be lucky,,,, best thing to do is give it to some keen old dodders to restore as a group retirement project at the local veteran car club... get real people ... big hand to Mr scott,,, he sounds like a good egg!
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Unbekannt
03 Juli 2013, 21:24
Hot rodded? that little thing would last two seconds with a small block anything. David Scott would do well with it, good guy and I'd be happy to see it restored. What a little hoot! Then again, if no engine a small electric motor and you'd have a golf cart! Oh the indignities.......
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Unbekannt
03 Juli 2013, 04:31
This car has been for sale on and off for a while now. It was certainly discussed at a recent Veteran Car Club meeting and it's known to veteran car enthusiasts here in the Brisbane area. I've heard that the vendor is difficult to deal with and has unrealistic price expectations.
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Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 20:09
It does not seem to show up on my US ebay lising. Can someone please post a link? IS he asking a rediculous price? Sure looks like a funmobile to me. I'm just curious, not buying.
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Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 17:36
If anyone knows what kind of money this dude is looking for, I'd be happy to put the cash up if someone in Australia is willing to collect the bits and take them to a place of safety?
After that who knows, I'd like an Edwardian but the shipping and taxes would be high, and I already have too many projects, latest one, a 1949 Simca 8 (Pre-war FIAT Nuova Balilla) "woodie" I haven't even collected yet!! But I should sooner put the cash up asa total loss than see it "hot-rodded", no car should suffer that indignity!
Someone let me know?!
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After that who knows, I'd like an Edwardian but the shipping and taxes would be high, and I already have too many projects, latest one, a 1949 Simca 8 (Pre-war FIAT Nuova Balilla) "woodie" I haven't even collected yet!! But I should sooner put the cash up asa total loss than see it "hot-rodded", no car should suffer that indignity!
Someone let me know?!
Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 13:49
After the Great War, the 11.9 h.p. continued in production, The directors elected to pursue the large car market, but Bowyer-Lowe, who had designed a new 8 h.p., did not agree and resigned.
After Bowyer-Lowe's departure, Phoenix brought in a designer from Arrol Johnston who brought with him ideas similar to those which more or less finished that company. The resulting 17.9 h.p. was not a success, and the 11.9 hp. was reinstated but with the radiator moved to the front: not a lot else changed. A version with a Meadows engine seems to have been little better, but the same manufacturer's six cylinder engine in the 17.9 h.p. may have improved it. By 1928 the last Phoenix was made, and the works were taken over by the Ascot Motor and Manufacturing Company.
The Ascot 10 h.p. owed nothing to Phoenix, but the Gold Cup model was said to have been based on the Meadows-engined 17.9 h.p.
Stuart
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After Bowyer-Lowe's departure, Phoenix brought in a designer from Arrol Johnston who brought with him ideas similar to those which more or less finished that company. The resulting 17.9 h.p. was not a success, and the 11.9 hp. was reinstated but with the radiator moved to the front: not a lot else changed. A version with a Meadows engine seems to have been little better, but the same manufacturer's six cylinder engine in the 17.9 h.p. may have improved it. By 1928 the last Phoenix was made, and the works were taken over by the Ascot Motor and Manufacturing Company.
The Ascot 10 h.p. owed nothing to Phoenix, but the Gold Cup model was said to have been based on the Meadows-engined 17.9 h.p.
Stuart
Alan Eveson
01 Juli 2013, 12:34
If you read the comments on the eBay listing it says the engine is there, but dismantled.
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Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 09:02
Stuart Penketh has got it right, more or less.
A.E. Bowyer-Lowe designed the 11.9 h.p. (which is what this one is) and only left Phoenix post-Great War when, although he had designed a replacement car, van Hooydonk preferred to put the old 11.9 back into production.
When I had an 11.9 I did try to find the one in the Brisbane area and spoke to its then owner (who was in canberra at the time). Only some parts of the car were in Brisbane and in the photo it clearly has no engine, so perhaps the whole car was never reunited.
The 11.9 that I had is now owned by A.E. Bowyer-Lowe's grandson!
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A.E. Bowyer-Lowe designed the 11.9 h.p. (which is what this one is) and only left Phoenix post-Great War when, although he had designed a replacement car, van Hooydonk preferred to put the old 11.9 back into production.
When I had an 11.9 I did try to find the one in the Brisbane area and spoke to its then owner (who was in canberra at the time). Only some parts of the car were in Brisbane and in the photo it clearly has no engine, so perhaps the whole car was never reunited.
The 11.9 that I had is now owned by A.E. Bowyer-Lowe's grandson!
Bob Ausburn
14 Dezember 2018, 00:06
Would like to contact the person who made the comment below, also a contact for A.E. Bowyer-Lowe's grandson whom we believe has a register for the Phoenix 11.9hp cars still surviving in the world.
"Stuart Penketh has got it right, more or less.
A.E. Bowyer-Lowe designed the 11.9 h.p. (which is what this one is) and only left Phoenix post-Great War when, although he had designed a replacement car, van Hooydonk preferred to put the old 11.9 back into production.
When I had an 11.9 I did try to find the one in the Brisbane area and spoke to its then owner (who was in canberra at the time). Only some parts of the car were in Brisbane and in the photo it clearly has no engine, so perhaps the whole car was never reunited.
The 11.9 that I had is now owned by A.E. Bowyer-Lowe's grandson!"
Weiter lesen
"Stuart Penketh has got it right, more or less.
A.E. Bowyer-Lowe designed the 11.9 h.p. (which is what this one is) and only left Phoenix post-Great War when, although he had designed a replacement car, van Hooydonk preferred to put the old 11.9 back into production.
When I had an 11.9 I did try to find the one in the Brisbane area and spoke to its then owner (who was in canberra at the time). Only some parts of the car were in Brisbane and in the photo it clearly has no engine, so perhaps the whole car was never reunited.
The 11.9 that I had is now owned by A.E. Bowyer-Lowe's grandson!"
Adam bowyer-Lowe
13 Juli 2025, 07:05
Morning have just seen your post and yes you are correct I have an 11.9hp.
If you wish please feel free to contact me via email
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If you wish please feel free to contact me via email
Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 07:30
This car has been for sale on eBay.
Search ebay Australia completed items for this title:
1913 PHOENIX VETERAN CAR. 11.9hp 4cyl. BEEN IN DRY STORAGE. MAKE GREAT HOT ROD
Or this item number: 12113242999
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Search ebay Australia completed items for this title:
1913 PHOENIX VETERAN CAR. 11.9hp 4cyl. BEEN IN DRY STORAGE. MAKE GREAT HOT ROD
Or this item number: 12113242999
Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 04:38
We live in Brisbane Australia but have not seen this for sale. Would be most interested to obtain full details. Be very sad to see this chopped up.
Regards to all at PWC for an excellent site
Colin Tel.07 3829 1893
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Regards to all at PWC for an excellent site
Colin Tel.07 3829 1893
Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 03:11
This would not be a good car for said hot rodding it is just a ploy to get free media. With a center radiator and a hood the size of an electric motor good luck. Looks like his marketing department people are spot on.
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Unbekannt
01 Juli 2013, 01:45
The Phoenix Light car, was NOT made by the Ascot Motor and Manufacturing Company, but by Phoenix Motors, who started as the Phoenix Motor Cycle Works (J Van Hooydonk), in Holloway Rd. making "motorcycles and forecarriages".
The name change to Phoenix Motors was made in 1904, when they started making cars .
Engines were bought in from Fafnir, Minerva and Imperia in turn
By 1912 they had moved to Letchworth (First Garden City in 1899). Engines were then provided by Metallurgique.
Phoenix wanted to reach for the high end market, so their designer (Bowyer-Lowe) left and a designer from Arrol-Johnson took over to produce a car with a 17.9hp engine but it was not a success .
By 1928 the last Phoenix was made, and the works were taken over by the Ascot Motor and Manufacturing Company.
See :
http://www.lgcs.org.uk/phoenix.htm
Stuart
Weiter lesen
The name change to Phoenix Motors was made in 1904, when they started making cars .
Engines were bought in from Fafnir, Minerva and Imperia in turn
By 1912 they had moved to Letchworth (First Garden City in 1899). Engines were then provided by Metallurgique.
Phoenix wanted to reach for the high end market, so their designer (Bowyer-Lowe) left and a designer from Arrol-Johnson took over to produce a car with a 17.9hp engine but it was not a success .
By 1928 the last Phoenix was made, and the works were taken over by the Ascot Motor and Manufacturing Company.
See :
http://www.lgcs.org.uk/phoenix.htm
Stuart